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Forums › Marker Talk › Problem/Tech forum :: Archives › Attention! If you are Chopping, READ THIS :: Archived

Attention! If you are Chopping, READ THIS
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Chimera
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Joined: Nov 30, 2003
Posts: 38
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:49 am    Post subject: Attention! If you are Chopping, READ THIS

Well, Since its been on Pbnation forever, I thought I might as well put it here.

For anyone who has a bko (or bushmaster) and is chopping, there are a few cheap solutions (and a few expensive ones) that will stop the chop.
"Make sure you have tried a new battery before you try any of this stuff. A low battery will cause a number of problems, including chopping!"
Also, Make sure that you have new hopper batteries, and make sure that you are using good paint.


1. OTB Blind Bolt

about $35, Currently available from Kai83 on Pbnation, a link to his thread is here. Action village has them listed, but they are out of stock

This is a goodsolution, it is probably the most recommended, and the cheapest. The blind bolt is basically a bolt with a rubber tip. Instead of the ball getting crushed by the hard delrin of the stock bolt, the rubber is impacted, but the ball does not chop (at least most of the time).
The blind bolt should stop at least 95% of chops, if not more.

*READ BELOW*
Edit: At this time I do NOT recommend the blind bolt. Some people have had major reliablity issues with them, including the tip coming off, horrible blowback, and low velocity. If you do want one, I suggest you wait a few months until OTB has changed the bolts.

BLIND BOLT WARNING - Click Here

-It will fit in both the bushmaster or bko.





2. SP Mod/Dam Mod
Sp Mod is available from Shootpaint for $65, Dam Mod was available from a guy named paintballbeaver for $25, but I don't think he is doing it anymore

Link to Do-It-Yourself DAM Mod and ram bumper mod by Emenresu - Click Here

This mod works even better than the Blind Bolt, but BEWARE, it will not work on late 03 bko's and ALL 04 bko's without a Chaos Board. Basically this mod is a couple of holes drilled into the ram to exhaust air when a ball is pinched.
These mods should stop about 98% of chops, but they also have caused some extra unwanted problems.

-Will ONLY fit in the bko





3. ACE/PDS Installs
ACE (anti chop eye) installs are available from Vaporworks, which I recommend a lot. Check www.vaporworks.net They will do PDS installs for $125+return shipping. PDS can also be professionally installed directly from ICD for $165.

Basically PDS and ACE are break beam eyes that sense when a ball is in the chamber or not, so the gun won't shoot when there isn't a ball in the breech, therefore, no chops!
This is definitely the MOST reliable Anti Chop method, but also the most expensive. Will stop 99.99% of chops.

-Available for the bushmaster and for the bko, you do NOT need a new board





4. Halo B/Reloader B/Q loader
Halo's are available from pretty much any store, new they are around $110, reloaders are about $140-$150 (I think)

A Halo B will stop blowback, and load paint faster, which will help to not chop. If you have the money, GET ONE! The difference between an Egg and Halo is night and day.
This is a good upgrade to get along with the others, if you do not have the other anti-chop solutions, this should stop about 95% chops (depending on how fast you shoot).

*NOTE* You will have more chopping problems with a halo, Q loader, OR Reloader b if you do not do the macroline mod! The stock detents are NOT strong enough to handle the force feeding of a halo, causing the gun to double feed. The macroline mod is very easy to do, a link can be found here - Click This link.

Only 2k3's and newer (maybe some 2k2's?) have oring style detents, if you have an older style ball detent, you can purchase new aftermarket detents.






BLOWBACK
Blowback needs its own section because it is such a huge problem in bkos and bushies

Many times, people have chopping problems because of a thing called blowback. It can happen when the stock bolt is too loose inside the breech, so air coming up from the valve can move around the bolt, and get into the feedneck, causing the balls to jump up when you shoot. Now if you have a gravity fed loader such as the Evolution II, the only pressure coming down on the that ball that just hopped up is from the other balls. So when you start shooting fast, it goes something like this shoot shoot shoot CHOP CHOP. But don't worry there are a few solutions available. I will list them from cheapest to most expensive.






1. Mod the Stock bolt

This is a very cost effective solution. All it will cost is the price of an oring (if you already have a saw or dremel)
The only link I could find can be found here, if you know where the other one is, let me know.

With this mod, you basically take a saw or dremel, cut out a slot in your stock bolt, and put an oring in it. Sometimes it works great, sometimes it doesn't. Usually you have to get the oring in the perfect spot to stop the blowback. If you are going to get a new bolt soon anyways, you could try this out.






2. New Bolt
A new bolt will run you between $25-$40
Vapor Bolt $28
Blind bolt $35-available from kai83, as mentioned above
Bonebrake Z-4 $40
Tantrum Bolt $60

all of the above bolts are available here, and the vapor bolt can also be found here


I would recommend all of these bolts, but most people will probably get the blind bolt to kill 2 birds with one stone. One drawback to the Blind bolt is that it has not been widely tested, for the most part, it has stopped blowback, but there have been a few cases where it has not. The Vapor bolt is the cheapest, and if you have PDS and you aren't chopping, this would probably be a good, cheap bolt to speed up your shooting (If you aren't worried about chopping). It is the MOST proven at stopping blowback, it has 3 orings situated throughout the bolt. One problem with the Vapor bolt is that all those orings create drag, and if they are not lubed well enough, your fps may decrease, thus causing you to have to raise your op pressure, which may cause a loss in efficiency. The bonebrake z-4 is the most expensive, although it does help a bit more than the other bolts. To my knowledge, this is the smallest bolt on the market for the bushmaster/bko. That said, it will increase your fps by around 25 (if the o-ring is properly lubed). The tantrum bolt is the most expensive and has not been widely tested. They are supposedly great bolts, but I don't have enough knowledge of them to go making assumptions.

-A new bolt will fit in both the bushmaster or bko.






3. Buy a halo, Q loader, or reloader b!
Yes, that's right, another great use for the Halo b. Halos cost around $110, but it is well worth it, as it will eliminate blowback, speed up your shooting ability, and reduce chops

Halo B's are the only force fed loader on market (besides the q-loader and warp feed, which I'm not sure about). This means they are constantly pushing on the ballstack, even when you are shooting. So when the blowback tries to make the balls jump up when you shoot, they just get pushed right back down. A halo b is definitely the BEST thing to get for your bko.

but remember: *NOTE* You will have more chopping problems with a halo, Q Loader or reloader b if you do not do the macroline mod! The stock detents are NOT strong enough to handle the force feeding of a halo, causing the gun to double feed. The macroline mod is very easy to do, a link can be found here - Click this Link.

Only 2k3's and newer (maybe some 2k2's?) have oring style detents, if you have an older style ball detent, you can purchase new aftermarket detents.



Please don't comment on this thread, PM me if you have ?'s


I am always updating and changing this thread, so check back for future updates

10/19/04 - Added Q loader, made minor changes

10/20/04 - Added colors for easier reading

last updated - Monday, October 25, 2004

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-Mulletmadness

*See pbnation sig Razz
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Chimera
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Joined: Nov 30, 2003
Posts: 38
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:00 am    Post subject:

Please do not make comments/responses to this thread, it is only informational. If you have additional questions, pm me or make a thread.


Thanks to people who have been giving suggestions for the chopping sticky, I have been adding stuff almost every day, PM Me if you think something needs to be in here!


- Mulletmadness

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