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Forums › General › Paintball talk :: Archives › So, I got this box in the mail... :: Archived

So, I got this box in the mail...
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63VDub
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Joined: Dec 11, 2014
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 12:39 pm    Post subject: So, I got this box in the mail...

And it was from Cliff Burger, otherwise known as cs900 over on PBN. About a month ago, I sent him a similar box, some drawings and a lot of "you'll understand what I mean when you have it in your hands." Contents of the box included the Defiant body I had sent him, my forward ASA, a Promaster frame and several bits and pieces. Now, the Defiant, in it's stock configuration, is a stacked tube, ram driven poppet valve design exactly like a Bushmaster. Old Imps, Timmies, Egos, Cyborgs, etc etc all use the same operating design. Works great, but there are some draw backs when you compare it to other styles of markers. Since the ram and hammer are tied together, the effective reciprocating mass is higher than some cockers, the Excal, and most spoolies. The stock tray/frame combination made it taller than most ranch style houses. The stock electronics were adequate, but the wiring was about as substantial as a spiderweb. Not to say that everything sucked. It's a proven platform, that's why so many markers are based on that design. the borg started out as an improved ram for the Bushmaster. The system is fast. Mechanically, I don't think 50 cps is out of the question, but the solenoid limits you to about 36. BooHoo.... Properly tuned, a Bushmaster will get better than 1100 shots off a 68/45.
But enough of my justifications. What led me to imagine this project was the first time I played with an Excalibur. OMG, it was like an extension of my mind. Buttery smooth, great efficiency, point, click, eliminate. That was four years ago. I immediately set out to design a marker that did everything I love about the Bushmaster, with the added benefits of the Excal, but maintaining the sleek, sexy ICD packaging. I taught myself CAD, with a lot of help from Spitlebug since I knew screwing up a design on a computer cost less money and time that pooching it on a mill. Discussion of this design grew to epic proportions on ICDO as various people put in their two cents and some even tried to give it a go. Nothing ever materialized. I got hung up on how to run two rams without having the body look like total butt. While I ruminated on that, I changed jobs (several times), moved (three times), suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure (no backup) and lived life. Then the MQ valve came out, and my thinking changed. Then the MQ died, and lived again and died once more. But, the seeds of inspiration were planted. Designs changed, parts were purchased and money was hoarded. Okay, money wasn't hoarded. I'm a paintball guy and I like markers. We'll just say that money was always in motion as various nice markers came and went from my house. Finally I had everything the way I wanted it on paper and most of the parts I needed. Guess what, alot of machinists aren't good communicators. Quite a few of the rest that can reply to emails have backlogs. But I found one that had an opening, replied to emails and knew what I wanted done. Off went the box and in about a month, fully a month BEFORE deadline, I got my stuff back. And now for the pictures:

Stock Defiant body, nekkid:

Forward ASA:

Bare Promaster frame:

Promaster Frame Clearance for the ASA:

Cut for membrane pad. This deserves a little explanation, Cliff recognized that the depression I wanted to keep me from accidentally turning things off or on was going to make the back wall paper thin. So, after a little discussion with me running in small little circles pulling out my hair, Cliff suggested fabbing an insert for the pad that the frame would clamp in place when assembled. As so we went with that. looks good and does the job nicely without intruding into the grip.:

VW norise neck:

MAC ram:

PPS Regs:

Universal T-Board:

MQ Valve:

Now for the really cool stuff:
Brass Valve spacer. Cliff fixed my dimensions, oring gland sizing, and chamfering. Hmm, come to think of it, the only thing I had right on that drawing was that it needed to be a hollow cylinder, the rest he did:

Bolt:

Body cuts. the bottom of the lower tube had to go, and I needed two holes drilled and tapped for barbs in the top tube. I needed the LP passage tapped for a barb (I dinked the measurements for that, too. Yet another thing Cliff fixed) The lower tube needed tapped for a Cocker IVG to hold the MQ. The top tube needed tapped for the ram:




Start to finish, it took about four weeks once Cliff got started, counting all the time he was waiting for me to reply when I had screwed up. I emailed cs900 the first time Feb 9. I mailed my parts to him along with an initial payment Mar 22 (my delay, not his). He told me that he had "a few jobs in line ahead of me" once he got my package. Major groan, D-Day starts in early June, and I was hoping to use it there. We all know what a few jobs ends up being. Imagine my suprise when I got an email 4 days later saying he was starting my spacer. I can imagine what he was thinking when he realized that almost ALL the dimensions weren't correct on the spacer. According to my gmail, we exchanged 63 emails in the span of the project, and they were all productive updates or important questions about what exactly I wanted done. This is what I ended up with:



If you ever need any mill/fab work done, Cliff Burger is the guy. cs900 on PBN and pbmetalmods @ gmail "dot" com He kept the lines of communication open, even sending me his phone number to chat things over and get better clarification on some points. his work is clean, and well done. He did make a small mark on the nose of the body, but I made it clear from the start that reanno was in the future and that any small blemishes were no big deal.

Northup, I used the hoodie since you aren't an AP fan.

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STEWIEDP13
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Joined: Oct 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: So, I got this box in the mail...

I like the gun, the only thing that would have made it stand out more is if you took the pic on a New England Patriots pullover... Laughing
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etipp98
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Joined: Aug 05, 2005
Posts: 1442
Location: OH...IO!

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: So, I got this box in the mail...

WOWZA. Nicely done, what colors/finish where you planning to get it anno'd?

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63VDub
Pro Headcase


Joined: Dec 11, 2014
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: So, I got this box in the mail...

Not EVER gonna happen, Stewie. Dallas has a better chance of getting merchandise in my house than the Pats.

Jake, I'm really torn between a nice Black/blue acid wash or just a flat black with brass highlights (detent, barrel, trigger, MRA base, etc)

_________________
“Oh, so you think the harness is your ally?
But you merely adopted the harness.
I was born in it, molded by it.
I didn’t see modular electronics until I was already a man,
by then to me it was only blinding.
The harnesses betray you because they belong to me.”
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Northup
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Joined: May 19, 2005
Posts: 1675
Location: Nk. RI

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: So, I got this box in the mail...

I agree with Stewie gun looks like garbage. Give it to me and I will put it on a nice Pats Jersey and it will shoot 100% better



Loving the gun though, Cant wait to see it up and running and with some new anodizing
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maloneoni
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Joined: Feb 06, 2008
Posts: 6364
Location: livermore, ca

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: So, I got this box in the mail...

i like it.

cs900 does good work. i had him do some work on my shocker a few months back.

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cs900 wrote:
a can opener is a good alternative to a sp on off.

63VDub wrote:
I see potential for a CO2 operated tattoo gun...

Beating plowshares into swords.
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st2k2
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Joined: Oct 26, 2006
Posts: 721
Location: SL,UT

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Re: So, I got this box in the mail...

very interesting. excited to see the finished product =D

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Crash1976
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Joined: Feb 06, 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: So, I got this box in the mail...

^^^ditto, and video too.

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fivestring
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Joined: Apr 12, 2005
Posts: 1903
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: So, I got this box in the mail...

So this is why you wanted an MQ valve a while back and didn't disclose the info.

i'm very interested here Dub. I wanna see it in action.

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TSelanne
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: So, I got this box in the mail...

Wow, nice.

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