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Forums › General › Off Topic :: Archives › Occupy or not? :: Archived

Occupy or not?
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Crash1976
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Occupy or not?

OWS= Hippies of the New Millenium

Over at Occupy Dallas the park was filled with vagrants, homeless and punks with needles in their faces... looked like a bunch of lolapalooza rejects.

Typical Occupy Protestor interview:

News: What are you folks out here protesting?

OWS: We're the 1% man! And we're tired of the BS!

News: So what exactly would you like to see happen, what do you hope to accomplish?

OWS: Man, we're out here to raise awareness of what's going on! ...yeah!

News: Awereness of what?

OWS: All the stuff man...the BS, you know the evil rich are killing us...the 99%...yeah... Wooohoo! We ain't gonna take it!

News: I think I'm still a little unclear of the purpose.

OWS: Raising awareness man!...aintchoo been listn'n?? We're the 1%!!

So, this is just a bunch of BS, these guys couldn't pass a 5th grade literacy test. druggies, addicts, and general vagrants.

I wish they'd go occupy a Jay Oh Bee!

They are the Dems tea party?... yeah, i don't think so.

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63VDub
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupy or not?

In our discussion, I decided that I am pro Occupy in theory, but until the find some cohesion, a leader and weed out the worthless people that give protesters a bad name, I am anti Occupy in practice. My borther posted a video of protesters being pepper sprayed at UC Davis. I was all for both sides, even though I think the pepper spray might have been a little over the top. What pissed me off was that the rest of the protesters stood around filming instead of filling in where people got drug off. If you protest and partake in civil disobedience, you by default accept any legal repurcussions that come your way. also, if Occupy is going to have any staying power, people have to commit enough to it to fill in until the police run out of room to escort them off.

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Crash1976
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupy or not?

63VDub wrote:
I decided that I am pro Occupy in theory....

Exactly what part of their ideology do you agree with?

I have never heard a clear statement as to their mission or ideology.

The sentiment seems to be something to the effect of Wall Street profit =BAD/EVIL...

They seem to forget that when Wall Street does well everybody does well, when rich people make money they spend money, they open businesses or expand existing businesses, they start projects largely privately funded.

I am in a unique position to see many facets of the wealth landscape.

My dad is what most would consider wealthy. several years ago when the markets were doing well and intrest rates were at a sustainable level he earned roughly $100k a year in intrest off just his CDs. Last year he earned $16k. That's an 84% loss of income. Income he used to purchase cars, take vacations, give to charity, buy home furnishings, electronics, the list goes on and on. All of these expendatures create new jobs or sustain existing ones.

That is just the tip of the proverbial iceburg as it relates to wealth loss and it's impact on the economy and the "working man". And he is a very very small fish in the scheme of the "wealth" pond. But wealthy people like him make up over 80% of the "wealthy" top 1% in america. Wealthy people create jobs however you cut it. weather it's simply spending into the economy or running and expanding a business, when they make money we all benifit.

i could go on about the view I have of the extremely wealthy like my sister's in-laws. A family owned business started by great grandpa that now makes over $400MM a year. her father in law just built a 25,000 sqft mansion in Dallas. They employ hundreds of workers all over the country in various factories and distribution centers. They spend lots of money on both business and pleasure, all of wich boos our economy.

I'm tired of people demonizing people who make money as though they have stolen something from them. I know what it's like to struggle financially, but no poor person ever offered me an opportunity to do anything other than wallow in his misery. It's easy to be disgruntled as a waiter or waitress about your tips, but it sure is nice when some wealthy person drops you a 35% tip. It's easy to feel like a victim, it's harder to shed the victim mentality and congratulate those who have succeeded and see how we can mimic that person's success.

Sure there has been corruption on all levels of the economic pyramid, but they are the exception, not the rule. i am all for better financial oversight to ensure ethical continuity. Just not willing to demonize the wealthy to do it.

I'd be interested to hear a clear argument for OWS with bullets as to their mission. I'm all ears.

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On wierd facial affectations...
mayford5 wrote:
I don't care how progressive casual Friday gets that is still not acceptable.

Roads?....Where we're going, we don't need roads... -Rom 5:1-2
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63VDub
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupy or not?

Some of what I hear tossed about involve a rewriting of the tax code, which I am in favor of. I'm not a flat tax guy, but a graduated tax with zero loopholes seems plausible. Smaller government is another point they make, but are not willing to sacrifice any social services, so I see that as a no go. Bringing troops home is always a rallying cry, but there are always going to be places where our forces are needed. Ending lobbying, stronger accountablilty rules for investment firms, etc.

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Crash1976
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupy or not?

Rewriting tax code
smaller government
accountability in all financial venues
ending lobbying

all sounds pretty tea party to me.

closing loopholes are good if it means closing loopholes that encourage profits being made outside the US (see the G.E. profit scandal)

I like a loop hole that allows a company to pay no tax on money they spend in a capitol expenditure. Right now a company can spend $100k a year in capitol expenditures, like purchasing additional space, building additions to expand business etc. loop holes that encourage job growth are a better use of tax dollars than extending unemployment don't you think?....kinda the old addage give a man a fish and you feed him a day, teach him to fish...etc.

Government was never supposed to take care of the people, government is supposed to protect and secure the people. paving the way for a person to persue his dream of happiness and prosperity without government intervention so long as he does so ethically.

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On wierd facial affectations...
mayford5 wrote:
I don't care how progressive casual Friday gets that is still not acceptable.

Roads?....Where we're going, we don't need roads... -Rom 5:1-2
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63VDub
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupy or not?

Sounds like you and I agree on a lot of things.

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“Oh, so you think the harness is your ally?
But you merely adopted the harness.
I was born in it, molded by it.
I didn’t see modular electronics until I was already a man,
by then to me it was only blinding.
The harnesses betray you because they belong to me.”
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Crash1976
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupy or not?

Yeah, well it's common sense to those of us who work for a living. So it stands to reason we'd agree on alot.

although i never understood a graduated tax system....atleast not one with a cap as high as the one we are currently under. why do people who make more have to pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes? those who earn less pay a smaller percentage down to zero....some even get a check when they didn't pay anything in....the lovely "earned income credit"

our tax system is so f'd up it is borderline insanity!! so the gov will take 35% of rich guy A to send it on down to poor guy Z... wealth redistribution...it's communisyt I tell you! COMMUNIST!

Wink

_________________
The Bushmaster Resale Market...The House That FGB built.

On wierd facial affectations...
mayford5 wrote:
I don't care how progressive casual Friday gets that is still not acceptable.

Roads?....Where we're going, we don't need roads... -Rom 5:1-2
Feedback---> www.icd-owners.com/htm...mp;t=13878
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dblk22vball
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupy or not?

I agree, you should get a "rebate" or money back, if you have overpaid in someway. But you should not be able to MAKE money from taxes when you put little or none in.

You have to have a stake in the game to have all those services mean something to you. If you get it for free, then people tend to not appreciate it and feel it is mean for other people to take it away from them.

Worst part is government programs are like zombies, it is almost impossible to kill them once they become alive.

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Baldfox157
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupy or not?

The biggest "swing" needs to be taken at the Capital Gains tax rate. That's where the whole 99% comes from(it's really 99.9%) 50% of all capital gains money is made by 0.1% of the population. If a single person makes more than $34,900.00, or a married couple $69,800.00, they pay a higher tax rate than Warren Buffett(15%). Myself, just a hillbilly from Indiana, pays 28%. Adjustments needed.

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Headshotted
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Occupy or not?

I'm paying 25%? I make somewhere in the 25-28k a year mark? So, yeah... I can agree on a few changes.
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