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Forums › General › Paintball talk :: Archives › PBnation Nastiness - and my reply. :: Archived

PBnation Nastiness - and my reply.
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DarrylHadfield
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:34 pm    Post subject: PBnation Nastiness - and my reply.

To: FallNAngel
Title: Baseless perm ban and resulting actions.
Sent: Saturday March 3rd, 2007.


FallNAngel wrote:
Again, I'm going to say this and close the thread... if I close it and not respond, it looks like I'm ignoring what's being said. If I respond and close it, you claim it's a weak move because I prevent other people from argueing back. Either way, the thread shouldn't have been made. So, I'll try to make this quick and painless:

So your only option to look like a man is to LEAVE THE THREAD OPEN and directly address it.

The problem is - then you are made to look like an incompetent buffoon, because it becomes rapidly apparent that the second and third bans were baseless and unfounded and that you (or whoever invoked the second temp and then perm ban) was unfairly targeting me for whatever reason.

FallNAngel wrote:
Litespeed: If a person avoids the swear filter, they should be banned. Type as you normally do and let the system do it's job. His intentions might have been good, but that doesn't change the fact that avoiding the swear filter is against the rules. Making racial comments is also against the rules and are taken very seriously. Past that, after 2 temps, you're perm banned, no matter the reasons for the banning.

And again.. The TOS and rules (and yes, I've been through both with a fine-toothed comb) indicate avoidance of the swear filter is unacceptable - what I did was not avoidance, it was self-filtering. If I had spaced the letters out, or used similar characters, then I would wholeheartedly agree that yes, I had been avoiding the swear filter. Fact is.. I didn't. Seems far too likely that you or whoever did the ban has something against me personally. To support my hypothesis.. Yes, I should have thought more before posting the link to the Thunderstruck BST thread - but the resulting ban for two periods instead of "HI" and then a perm ban for a thread that to my knowledge and repeated review didn't violate any rules.

Fact of the matter is, I don't trust PBN's filter - Just like I don't trust the mods or admins. Pooh and Harb (whom I've CC'd on this) have both been contacted about it, and have failed to respond. I've CC'd Tony, as well - Mod conduct on PBN has long been an issue for me, since I've seen other users get targeted for silly nonsense.

FallNAngel wrote:
Having said that, I apologize I offended you with my comments. It's not my intent and yes, some of the avatars are definately in the grey area;

Just like s, two periods, and a t. The avatars get by, though, while I don't.

I see. Certainly, no double standard there.

FallNAngel wrote:
however by the site rules, they're "legal". Going with anything other than what really *is* legal to post just gets more and more subjective. I generally have to surf at work with images off for this reason.

If you have to surf with images off, odds are you shouldn't be surfing from work at all. Very poor quality of character - but again, I'm not really surprised.

FallNAngel wrote:
I *could* just turn off avatars as I suggested, but you never know what you're going to see. As stated earlier in the thread, if you take offense to the avatars, just turn them off.

A shame that same attitude isn't held regarding what you mistakenly refer to as swear filter avoidance.

FallNAngel wrote:
63VDub wrote:

He speaks his mind, and some folks don't respect that and want to go whine to those with the stick. Welcome to PBN.

Posting your mind and making racial comments aren't the same thing. I'm all for stating your mind, I've done it on here, even to other mods. There's speaking your mind and posting constructively and there's making comments that shouldn't be made.

EXCUSE ME?!

Hey.. Sparky.. Perhaps you don't know my background.. I've gone through more "sensitivity training" and "harassment training" than you probably know exist. YES, I speak my mind.. And as vdub said, people just can't handle that.

You indicating that I've made racial remarks? Tread lightly. I'm not above starting legal action against a duly authorized representative of PBNation, LLC, for slanderous comments.


FallNAngel wrote:
63VDub wrote:

Now, it's time to call a spade a spade. If rules are rules, then they need to be enforced equally across the board. Such as som3 dud3s tag "Elk, mother****ers" Is that not avoiding the filter? It's done all the time, and if you want to drop the hammer on one member, well, man up and do it to all. If you want to mod, then mod. It's that simple.

I don't see why it's in violation of the swear filter... the swear filter caught it just fine. I try to mod as evenly as I can; I don't play favorites or make excuses. There's lots of times that I'd rather just delete a person's text post in the pic thread rather than put in the ban... the system won't work if I don't do my part.

FallNAngel wrote:
63VDub wrote:

I for one plan on increasing the mods workload. I'll hit that lil button every chance I get. It's a shame when the governing body waits for someone to complain to do their job, that is how and why PBN has headed down the crapper like it has.

Personally, I don't wait for someone to complain. I leave the house for work at 7:15am and get home at 10:30pm. The rest of the time I'm at work. I honestly just don't have the time I did pre-October to be on here a solid 10+ hours a day (and yeah, it really was that bad). I have Outlook set up to my personal e-mail account that I get reported post notifications on at work. When I see a post is reported, I check it out and deal with it then. After around 6pm or so, I actually get to start posting on PBN.

Make up your mind.

"I don't wait for someone to complain" and "when I see a post is reported, I check it out and deal with it" are mutually exclusive.

So, tell me.. are you a liar, or just unqualified to act as a mod due to your lack of ability to maintain a consistent story?

FallNAngel wrote:
Having said all that though, let the topic go. He's been banned, he made the decision to leave, it's over. If there's questions / concerns, PM me. Anyone else bringing this topic up will have a vacation for trolling.

So now you're not even going to let anyone discuss it.. how appropriate.

You disgust me - and not just as a moderator for what has the potential to become a focal point for the paintball community at large because of its content and membership.... but moreso because you are a watered down, milktoast example of what guidance for the upcoming generation SHOULD be.

Tony, I've got your cell, and will call you directly to discuss this and my forthcoming actions to address it.

*edit* Tony's not accepting PMs, so I'll simply call him - but he will have a copy of this as soon as I get done posting it.

Darryl Hadfield

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dementedpaintballer
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: PBnation Nastiness - and my reply.

That's ********. Although, it would be pretty awsome if you could sue PbNation LLC over slanderous comments, but some bill/law was passed that prohibits you to sue. It was posted in thr TTTM forum a little bit ago; I'll go try and find it.

And good luck trying to get Tony to listen. He never so much as did anything when I was originally banned from PbNation and the banning mod refused to unban me even though Tony, Kyle, and other mods/admins showed proof that I was innocent.

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DarrylHadfield
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: PBnation Nastiness - and my reply.

I've dealt with Tony in the Past. I just got off the phone with Harb, and will be in touch with Ed (Tony's dad) in about the next 5-10 minutes.

D.

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Nobody
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: PBnation Nastiness - and my reply.

the one thing that i don't get with the swear filter is, instead of using asterixs inplace of the word, how about doing the five year old and replace the word. mother f'er could be mudder trucker. simple but PBN is a simplistic place.

overall, D, i read the posts from your links. it seems that you are being singled out FOR being an individual. its very "1984" in regards to you no conforming to the rules. you self-filtered, which bypasses the PBN filter, which the mods didn't like. its like you're taking power from them, but not using PBN. THEN saying that you are leaving and never coming back, you are telling them, that PBN is dead, and only used by those that can't write without symbols, & L33T speak. no, so sorry.

at 30, i should know when to cuss, and when not to. i don't need a filter to say that i have vulgar language. of course i do. i am a real person that gets pissed off and i vent with language. some very colourful. as an adult, i do drink, smoke and cuss, but i know when and wear to do it. so if i want to expand on the idea of someone being more of an idiot that its already apparent, then i'll use a colourful metafor with idiot.

all in all, i really think you steped on someone's toes and this is there revenge. funny, i look at it as freedom for you.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: PBnation Nastiness - and my reply.

I'm gonna have to agree with you on the swearing bit Rgus609. Still, that's no reason to ban somebody over and over.

PBN is good if you go to certain places; I'm a bit supprised that Madpooh didnt' do anything in the entire situation though.

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Spitlebug
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:13 am    Post subject: Re: PBnation Nastiness - and my reply.

This whole situation is ridiculous. I am not sure why Harb allowed such an inexperienced member to become a moderator. I understand that he was looking for a FreeStyle moderator (as he asked me a while ago) but I was uninterested because I don't really like FreeStyles that much. Either way, a lot of people take on the position of moderator without the full understanding of the choices involved. While I commend FallNAngel for making a tough call, in this case I don't think a third ban and resulting perm ban was required.

Self censoring is rare, but people do it and in my book wouldn't constitute a avoidance of the filter (as there is nothing to filter). I find the rules (written and un-written) on PbN are far too loose to be effective for a site with so many users. Perhaps that's why they are so vague, so that when a moderator steps out of line they can brush it under the carpet and there is nothing the membership can do about it.

I dunno, the whole thing has me miffed. Bad call, 15 yard penalty with a turnover to the defence....

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:26 am    Post subject: Re: PBnation Nastiness - and my reply.

I would have much more i could add, as i started another thread about this since he decided to "call me out" about the avatar discussion. Flamed me then closed the original thread. Unfortunately, i'm currently banned until Sunday....B/S/T thread.

Wasn't my intention, but it went that way.....miss a couple days....bam temp ban. Didn't even give me an opportunity to remove it.

I just wanted to show off my completed project and was trying to get input on whether to sell one of my BKOMasters as is, or part it. I never asked for offers.....
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DarrylHadfield
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: PBnation Nastiness - and my reply.

I've been in touch with Ed Rieker, Tony's dad - who owns the whole thing.

What I've told him I want is (to me, anyway) really simple:

1. I wish for my original account, "Darryl Hadfield", to be fully reinstated, and with no infractions listed against it save for the one issue where I ignorantly posted a Buy-Sell-Trade ("BST") thread in the ICD forum.

2. I wish for the rules on PBnation to clearly state what is and is not a violation of the swear filter - including that the outright use of non-filtered profanity on the part of the user is what PBNation wishes, in order to allow the swear filter to work as desired. Further, I would like for the swear filter's intent and purpose to be clearly posted within the same section of the rules.

3. I would like for the Moderator ("FallNAngel") who has made the comments in question to publicly apologize (i.e. via a posting in the ICD main forum) and retract his statements regarding my conduct as it pertains to those of other races and ethnic origins.

4. I would like for the Moderator ("FallNAngel") to be removed as a moderator on PBnation, as his conduct and judgement would seem to be questionable to the point of innapropriate as a representative of PBnation, LLC.


That's a direct cut/paste from my email to him. I do *NOT* want this to get legal, because that's a waste of time and money for everyone.. Ed seems to think that's what I want, though - maybe because I referenced to him that what FallNAngel said is textbook libel - it meets the four traditionally accepted criteria to qualify.

*shrug* we'll see what Ed comes back with. I don't think I'm being unreasonable; I just want things set right. I know I'm an arrogant ass sometimes, but I hardly think that warrants closer scrutiny than any other user.

What torques me off the worst is that the ICD community is fairly close-knit. It might seem unfair to the newer members, but on here, I *DO* grant some leniency to the users who've been here longer - rather than publicly humiliate them, a bad posting will get changed or moved, and I'll talk to the user privately. The only time I have to get nasty is when new people sign up and then get stupid in their posts, RIGHT after reading the signup terms.. That's just silly to be that ignorant.

I guess what I'm saying is that I feel that even though I *DID* screw up with my first temp ban - i.e. I posted a link to a BST on ICDO, in PBN (which I have admitted and will quietly take my lumps for), the swear filter thing was crap, and the resulting perm ban after only two temp bans was flat out wrong. That FallNAngel would then go on to suggest that I was making racist comments pushed me over the edge into full-on "pissed off."

Oh well. Hopefully Ed will see it as I do, and it'll get resolved quickly and peacefully.

D.

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zoidberg212
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:56 pm    Post subject: Re: PBnation Nastiness - and my reply.

Quote::
Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, passed in 1996, specifically states that "no provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker." That legalese means that, unlike print and broadcast companies, online service providers cannot be sued for disseminating defamatory attacks on citizens posted by others
doesn't that mean u can't sue them for what hew said?or am i interpreting it wrong.

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DarrylHadfield
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: PBnation Nastiness - and my reply.

a) I don't want to sue them. I want them to be grownups who can take responsibility for their actions, and the people they authorize to speak for them.
b) No, actually, Sec. 230 means that I can't sue them if some other user says I'm a goat-raping, child-molesting, presidential assassin. This isn't about something another user said, it's about something a moderator - a de-facto employee - said, and said in his capacity as a moderator and not just as a private citizen (which is a damn near impossible thing to do, anyway). Whole different story.

*shrug* again, I don't want to sue them. That'd be retarded. I want them to make him apologize, bump him off as a mod (Since he can't act as a reasonable mod to begin with), reinstate my original account, and clarify their own rules so that there's no ambiguity in the future.

D.

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