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Forums › General › Paintball talk :: Archives › Soo... how about those Alien Markers? :: Archived

Soo... how about those Alien Markers?
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etipp98
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Soo... how about those Alien Markers?

Its on nation, my bad.
www.pbnation.com/showt...?t=3142445

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fivestring
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:02 am    Post subject: Re: Soo... how about those Alien Markers?

Heated disussion indeed. Thanks for the link etipp.

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Martix_agent
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:59 am    Post subject: Re: Soo... how about those Alien Markers?

While i have no dobut that gordon did the tests correctly, the video he posts show zero proof of his tests. I'm absolutely baffled as to why this is. All you need to do is show 4 or 5 shots, just to prove you did ti correctly.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:38 am    Post subject: Re: Soo... how about those Alien Markers?

Pffft. Having followed Grodon and Bryce's work for quite a while now I can truly say that watching that sort of stuff is worse than watching paint dry.

Suffice it to say that I have zero doubt that the shots were taken and the methodology was correct in all facets of the testing.

Jack's test however... there are many things that are left open to criticism.

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eeyore
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:55 am    Post subject: Re: Soo... how about those Alien Markers?

I haven't shot an Alien marker, nor am I planning to. If was a consumer in the market and came across that Jack Rice video, I would be highly skeptical. I mean, even looking at the sweep bolt and it's difference between the regular bolt is a bit of a head scratcher,
"That piece put at the top of the bolt is supposed to magically make the marker more accurate and increase range?"
"Okay. Pfft."
And that valve. I can't even formulate words to describe how much sense that valve design doesn't make. Actually, I can't formulate words that well to begin with. But my two cents. Poppets make the air hit 2 90 degree angles in a short amount of space. The resulting turbulence I'm sure causes quite a bit of inacurracy. Add another couple random twists and turns for the air to make (as is the case w/the sweep bolt and valve) and I can't see how that might help. I've shot both a PM and FS and the FS is by far more accurate. In an FS the air does a 180 as it shoots through the manifold, but afterward the air travels down a lengthier valve assembly. Although the air might be jostled around a bit, I believe the fact that it's traveled in a straight line(and has a bit more time to settle and align it's self) right before it hits the paintball makes all the difference.

Okay, back to the vids.
The punkworks video, in which they actually perform "tests" of the bolts (I say test because they are being methodical, consistent, and recording data) is done well (I didn't view all the videos, because I really didn't care after a while) and I would give the benefit of my doubt to those punkworkers.

All this makes me think that some crafty little ICD owner is now going to produce a similar bolt for the Promaster and maybe, say, call it the Bump-It-In-The-Junk Bolt and then suddenly Jack Rice is going to find out about it and sue the site and then no more ICD-owners and then what the heck am I going to do with my evenings? Darnit, I'm going to have to get that Delorean back up and running and get that flux capacitor juiced so we can avoid this whole scenario.

It is funny though, the fact that we're talking about Alien markers on an ICD website, you could say this whole disscussion is biased from the get go and thus irrelevant.

And since we're talking about bolts here. WHEN THE HECK IS SOMEONE GOING TO COME OUT WITH A REAL VENTURI BOLT FOR THE PROMASTER? I was always a fan of that 8 hole design they started when they came out with the Panther. The Puma and the Bobcat's got it, Desert Foxes have it, Freestyle's are pimping it. WHAT IS GOING ON? I paid like 15 bucks for that Shocktech bolt advertised as "Venturi" and it's got these 3 massively cheesey, horribly chisled out ghetto holes on it and it does not make me sleep tight at night.
Alright I'm done. No more ranting from me. Back to a real discussion.
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Martix_agent
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: Soo... how about those Alien Markers?

alamo city already made a low-blow bolt for ICD markers. It was a major flop because we are smart enough to realize it's useless.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:46 am    Post subject: Re: Soo... how about those Alien Markers?

Actually if you guys really want to know... turbulence from the valve is pretty much BS all the way around. At least that's what it's starting to look like through mathematical study of the various forms of bolts.

Look here for some interesting stuff (High pressure, Low Pressure, Open Face, Lowblow etc...)
www.techpb.com/forum/i...opic=28254

We are really learning quite a bit.

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Martix_agent
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:33 am    Post subject: Re: Soo... how about those Alien Markers?

I agree with that guy who says " i can't read any of those graphs"

I'm confused. this is way over my head apparently.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Soo... how about those Alien Markers?

It's pretty simple. There are two sets of plotted lines. One set of plotted lines is for an open face bolt and the other set is for a lowblow (backspin) bolt.

The Graph shows both high and low pressure performance over time for both styles of bolts.

What is interesting is that there is very little gain from low pressure to high pressure on both styles of bolts.

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